Posts by Coded Logic

15

What is R&F

by Drifting Away in

jw
friends

i see the letters r&f often, but i dont know what that stands for..can someone tell me?

tia

Coded Logic

Hahahaha, nice Baker!

For a long time I thought it meant The "Truth" Ain't The Truth

33

Christians Know Who God Is

by Loi_241 in

many of us christians have a good question for you to ask, “who is god?” there are more than six scriptures to share with you.

you know the bible itself a true message for all the people on earth.

the bible explains ‘in the beginning god created everything: heaven, earth, animals, people and everything.’ thus, you notice god created humans, adam and eve.

Coded Logic

The OP makes a number of very unconvincing and unsubstantiated assertions.

Well said. Simply saying something is the case does not make it the case. And empty assertions are not going to convince anyone of anything. If people want to be taken seriously, they need to show they have good reasons for believing the things they believe.

16

Not the Author of Confusion

by Coded Logic in

609 african independent charismatic.

black american apostolic.

african independent charismatic.

Coded Logic

Most Christians believe that God inspired the Bible in some form or another. But if you believe that God is "not the author of confusion" (1 Corinthians 14:33) then why do people who are honestly seeking the Christian God disagree on just about every single point? And why are there so many different types of Christians?

.

There are:

The Roman Catholics
435 types of Conservative Catholic (schism ex-Rome)
32 Independent Russian Orthodox
30 Orthodox sect/sectarian
27 Liberal Catholic (Theosophical, Masonic, Gnostic)
26 Old Catholic (i.e. split with Rome after Vatican Council I)
25 Old Believer, Old Ritualist (Russian Orthodox sect)
24 Independent Ukrainian Orthodox
23 Reformed Orthodox (uncanonical)
16 Reformed Catholic (retaining Roman Catholic claims)
8 Old Calendarist (Authentic Orthodox)
6 True Orthodox (conservative Russian Orthodox)
5 Independent Serbian Orthodox
5 Latin-rite Catholic
5 Independent Assyrian or Nestorian
3 Independent Romanian Orthodox
2 Independent Estonian Orthodox
2 Independent Greek Orthodox
1 Independent Bulgarian Orthodox
1 Independent Byzantine rite
1 Independent Hungarian Orthodox
1 Independent Macedonian Orthodox
1 Independent Moldavian Orthodox

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Then there are the Independent Christians:

65 types of Filipino Charismatic
70 Chinese neocharismatic
71 Chinese Charismatic
78 Black American pentecostal
82 Holiness (Conservative Methodist, non-pentecostal)
86 Afro-Caribbean Oneness pentecostal
92 Latin American Charismatic
92 Anglican/Independent Evangelical
92 Independent Methodist
95 Indian pentecostal
96 African Oneness pentecostal
96 marginal independent (Black/Third World)
99 White-led Oneness pentecostal
102 Arab Charismatic
133 Black American Oneness pentecostal
133 Independent Disciple, Restorationist, Christian
136 Independent Reformed, Presbyterian
158 Zionist African Independent
167 Korean pentecostal (mixed traditions)
177 Indonesian pentecostal
208 New/Old Apostolic, Catholic Apostolic (Irvingite, an Anglican / Presbyterian / Adventist sect)
221 Brazilian/Portuguese pentecostal
225 ethnic or monoethnic denomination
226 White-led Full Gospel
236 Nondenominational (no church or anti-church)
271 Independent Baptist
281 Latin American grassroots
281 Filipino neocharismatic
300 Brazilian grassroots
343 Afro-Caribbean pentecostal
439 African Independent Spiritual
475 Indian Charismatic
609 African Independent Charismatic
644 Latin American pentecostal
805 single autonomous congregations
813 White-led pentecostal
African Independent Apostolic
Black American Apostolic
Filipino Apostolic
Indian Apostolic
another 8 groups have "Apostolic"
African Independent Charismatic
Black American Charismatic
Chinese Charismatic
African Independent Full Gospel
Black American Full Gospel
Chinese Full Gospel
another 10 groups have "Full Gospel"
another 20 groups have "house-church network" or "cell-based network"
another 14 are something-"neocharismatic"
another 12 are something-"Oneness pentecostal"
another 18 are something-"pentecostal"
another 12 are something-"radio/TV believers [or "network"]" (i.e. the "pastor" for these independent Christians is some personality on radio or TV)
then we have a couple deliverence/pentecostal groups
Word of Faith / Prosperity groups
a couple of "mixed traditions"
some "Zionist" groups
Independent Anglicans or Anglo-Catholic groups in both Catholic and Protestant directions
Independent Adventists
apocalyptic or eschatological ("end times") groups
Independent Baptists
British-Israelites
Hidden Buddhist believers in Christ
some Independent Orthodox groups
independent Christian Brethren (Plymouth Brethren)
schismatic Conservative Catholics
Independent Congregational, Congregationalists
Independent Disciple, Restorationist, Christian
Independent Dunkers (Tunker, Dipper)
Independent Exclusive Brethren (Closed, Strict)
episcopi vagantes ("wandering" bishops-at-large, very small under 100 members)
Independent Estonian Orthodox
Independent Anglican Evangelical
Independent Fundamentalist
Gay/Lesbian homosexual tradition (i.e. so-called "gay churches" such as Metropolitan Community Churches)
Independent Greek Orthodox
Hidden Hindu believers in Christ
Holiness or Conservative Methodist (non-Pentecostal)
Independent Hungarian Orthodox
Independent Jehovah's Witnesses (True Faith Jehovah's Witnesses, Lord's Witnesses, Christian Witnesses of Jah)
Messianic, Jewish-Christian congregations
Independent "Latin-rite" Catholics
Independent "Liberal" Catholics (Theosophical, Masonic, Gnostic)
7 Independent Protestant or Orthodox churches
Hidden Muslim believers in Christ
Independent Assyrian or Nestorian
No-Church Movement
Non-denominational (no church or anti-church groups) {Christians who don't even think there should be Churches}
Old Believer, Old Ritualist
Old Catholics (i.e. split from Rome after Vatican Council I)
Old Calendarist (Authentic Orthodox)
Orthodox sect/sectarian
Independent Friends (Quakers)
3 indy "Reformed" groups (Anglican, Catholic, Orthodox)
Independent Spiritualist, spiritists, occultists
Traditionalist Anglicans
True Orthodox (Conservative Russian Orthodox)
Independent Ukrainian Orthodox
United church (various united bodies)
community church or union congregation
ethnic or monoethnic denominations
independent evangelicals (dispensationalist)
marginal independent Christian (Black / Third-World)
isolated radio churches (unorganized)
single autonomous congregations

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And let's not forget the Protestants

Adventist
Baptist
Christian Brethern (Plymouth Brethren)
Congregational, Congregationalist
Disciple, Restorationist, Restorationist Baptist, Christian
Dunker (Tunker), Dipper, German Baptist, Brethren
Exclusive Brethren (Plymouth Brethren, Closed)
Anglican Evangelical, Independent Evangelical
Fundamentalist
Holiness (Conservative Methodist, Wesleyan, Free Methodist)
Lutheran / Reformed united church or joint mission
Lutheran
Mennonite, Anabaptist (Left Wing or Radical Reformation)
Methodist (mainline Methodist, United Methodist)
Moravian (Continental Pietist)
Oneness-Pentecostal or Unitarian-Pentecostal: Jesus Only
Baptistic-Pentecostal or Keswick-Pentecostal
Holiness-Pentecostal: 3-crisis-experience
Apostolic, or Pentecostal Apostolic (living apostles)
Pentecostal (Protestant; Classical Pentecostal)
Friends (Quaker)
Reformed, Presbyterian
Salvationist (Salvation Army)
United church (union of bodies of different traditions)
Waldensian

.

And here's some of the Marginals (including our favorite)

Christadelphian
apocalyptic, eschatological (i.e. "end times" Christians)
Divine Science
Gnostic, esoteric, anthroposophical
Holy Spirit Association for Unification of World Christianity
Jehovah's Witnesses
Latter-day Saints (Mormons), including Mormon schismatics
Liberal Catholic (Theosophical, Masonic, Gnostic)
schism from Orthodox, in marginal direction
Paulician, Bogomil
metaphysical science or "Divine/Religious Science"
Spiritualist, Spiritist, psychic, occult
Swedenborgian (Church of the New Jerusalem; spiritualistic)
Theosophist, Theosophical, synthesist
Unitarian, Universalist, Free Christian, Liberal Christian

.

This is just a sampling of the 33,000 denominations of Christianity in the US. Surely no God would be so incompetent as to inspire a book for humanity that no humans could understand or agree upon.

However, if the Bible is nothing more than a collection of various mythologies and histories cobbled together by ancient men - then such confusion is exactly what we'd expect to see.

33

Christians Know Who God Is

by Loi_241 in

many of us christians have a good question for you to ask, “who is god?” there are more than six scriptures to share with you.

you know the bible itself a true message for all the people on earth.

the bible explains ‘in the beginning god created everything: heaven, earth, animals, people and everything.’ thus, you notice god created humans, adam and eve.

Coded Logic

I choose the original Bible copy, not translation

No offense Loi_241, but it's really clear you haven't done even the most basic research on the Bible. Because we don't have an original copy of the Bible. Even worse, different types of Bibles have different numbers of books. For example, the NWT is a Protestant Bible - which was first put together in 1825 by the British and Foreign Bible Society. Prior to that, a Bible with only 66 books didn't exist.

It's also why we can't find the book of Enoch, or 1st and 2nd Maccabees in the NWT. And it's also why the NWT doesn't have the account of Bell and the Dragon in the book of Daniel. Or any of the extensions to Esther either.

Conversely, the books of Jude and Revelation used to NOT be included in the Bible. They weren't added until after the year 500. But the book Shepherd of Hermas used to be part of the New Testament.

The problem is the Bible was never canonized. Everyone disagrees on what should - and shouldn't - be allowed in the Bible. Does that sound like the makings of a "true message" to you?

33

Christians Know Who God Is

by Loi_241 in

many of us christians have a good question for you to ask, “who is god?” there are more than six scriptures to share with you.

you know the bible itself a true message for all the people on earth.

the bible explains ‘in the beginning god created everything: heaven, earth, animals, people and everything.’ thus, you notice god created humans, adam and eve.

Coded Logic

do you have proof of you asking why think the Bible has a "true" message?

Yes. It is located on the first page of this thread.

It's time for you to grab a coffee and do your homework on researching the ancient times and who is the author of Holy Bible.

Which "Holy Bible"? The Roman Catholic Bible? Greek Orthodox? Slavonic? Protestant?

All these "Holy Bibles" have a different number of books. And most of those books have different authors. You seem not to know this. I find it odd that you're telling me that I need to do research on the Bible when you haven't bothered to do any for yourself.

Also, it hasn't gone unnoticed that you didn't answer my question: If the Bible is a true message than why does it make demonstrably false claims?

33

Christians Know Who God Is

by Loi_241 in

many of us christians have a good question for you to ask, “who is god?” there are more than six scriptures to share with you.

you know the bible itself a true message for all the people on earth.

the bible explains ‘in the beginning god created everything: heaven, earth, animals, people and everything.’ thus, you notice god created humans, adam and eve.

Coded Logic

keep in mind that sometimes its talking about the NATIONALITY, not the location.

I know of no records in antiquity where Tyre is referenced as a nationality. Rather, the people of Tyre's nationality was Phoenician. I have the feeling this is something that has been pulled out of thin air by Christian apologists (A.K.A. the most dishonest people on the planet).

But none the less we know the Bible passage IS referencing the city of Tyre because:

A.) It specifically differentiates between the city of Tyre and its "dependent towns" (Ezekiel 26:6,8)
B.) It specifically references Tyre as being on an Island (Ezekiel 26:15,18). If it were referencing a "nationality" this would not be the case as only one city (Tyre) was on an Island. Not all of Phoenicia.
C.) It calls Tyre the "city of the Sea" (Ezekiel 26:17).

.

Also, even if we grant your premise that it was referencing a "nationality", it STILL gets it wrong. Because the people who lived in Tyre weren't destroyed by King Nebuchadnezzar and their inhabitants are still there to this day.

So in this case the nationality of Tyre would be families of Edomites which did see an invansion from him.

This is even worse. It's not only not right - it's not even wrong. Just because someone CAN come up with an explanation doesn't meant that actually IS the explanation. You have to have something you can point to that allows us to reach a conclusion. You don't just get to say "well it could have been this so we'll go with that."

It's blatantly clear that when the Bible references the city of Tyre - it's referencing the CITY of Tyre. And it specifically says that Nebuchadnezzar would breach the city walls and that he would tear down the buildings and that the city would be so thoroughly destroyed that it would never be rebuilt or found again.

Instead of following the evidence where it leads (the Bible got this wrong) they instead try to move the goal post by saying "oh the Bible wasn't really talking about the city of Tyre."

Why can't Christians just be honest?

33

Christians Know Who God Is

by Loi_241 in

many of us christians have a good question for you to ask, “who is god?” there are more than six scriptures to share with you.

you know the bible itself a true message for all the people on earth.

the bible explains ‘in the beginning god created everything: heaven, earth, animals, people and everything.’ thus, you notice god created humans, adam and eve.

Coded Logic

You know the Bible itself a true message for all the people on earth.

Then why does it make demonstrably false claims? For example, we know for a fact that:

Humanity did not begin 6,000 years ago.
A worldwide flood did not happen 4,300 years ago.
Nebuchadnezzar never destroyed or even entered the city of Tyre.
Land animals existed BEFORE flying creatures.
etc.

.

The Bible get's all these facts completely wrong. Why should we think it has a "true" message?

4

Multi-culturalism

by Coded Logic in

for many of us liberals the concept of multi-culturalism is a fundamental underpinning to the progress we've made towards building the sorts of societies we want to live in.

unfortunately, it seems to be the case that many regressives have hijacked the word "multi-culturalism" and now fly the term under the banner of "all cultures are equal".. however, this could not be further from the truth.

that's not what we're talking about when we use the term.

Coded Logic

I think that history has shown us time and time again that the best way to defeat bad ideas is with good ideas. That it is far more effective to educate than it is to legislate.

Make no mistake, we have our work cut out for us. The simple idea that freedom of religion is not freedom to trespass on other people's rights - seems, at times, to be a foreign idea here in the US. Which is an indication we haven't been effective in communicating this basic fact.

But we are making progress. Slow progress. But progress none the less. We are dragging Christianity, kicking and screaming, onto a higher moral plane. Women's equality, women's health, LGBT rights, informed marriages (living "out of wedlock" first), etc. These have all been proven to be healthy for our society.

I don't know if there's been a study on it, but it seems that Christianity in the US is also becoming a lot less tribalistic. It was a huge deal in the 60s that Kennedy was a Catholic. But last election next to nobody cared that Romney was a Mormon. And now this election it hasn't even been brought up that Bernie is a Jew.

All that aside, I think one of the best possible things we could do is to start phasing out religions tax exempt status. If their doing charity work - then they can show proof of that just like everyone else and qualify that way. I think it would encourage a lot of religions to be more generous. And the ones like the Society who aren't - it would further expose their true colors.

15

How Corrupt Is WT?

by thedepressedsoul in

how corrupt do you think they are?

if so, in what ways?

i've been compiling my own list and thoughts.

Coded Logic

To believe that you are guardians of God's organization is to take the rails off any kind of introspective or critical thinking. Starting from that premise, there is nothing they can't justify. There is no act that is so repugnant it can't be masked under the scent of "it's what God wants."

I suspect the Governing Body sleeps very well at night arrogantly secure in their belief that they're doing God's work. All their doubts swept under the rug of cognitive dissonance by "we don't always understand God's plan but things will work out in the end."

They wear their lack of education and formal training as a badge of honor. Like Moses, they believe they are chosen because of their hearts. All they care about is that they are sincere in their beliefs and actions. And any consequences of their actions - to them - are almost inconsequential.

Their corruption isn't that they know what they're doing is wrong. Rather, it's the terrifying belief that they can do no wrong.

4

Multi-culturalism

by Coded Logic in

for many of us liberals the concept of multi-culturalism is a fundamental underpinning to the progress we've made towards building the sorts of societies we want to live in.

unfortunately, it seems to be the case that many regressives have hijacked the word "multi-culturalism" and now fly the term under the banner of "all cultures are equal".. however, this could not be further from the truth.

that's not what we're talking about when we use the term.

Coded Logic

FMF,

Well said! I think we can respect people's heritage while simultaneously looking to the future. When neighborhoods or whole boroughs become too vulcanized it can create a lot of problems. But when there's some level of integration and union between different cultures these sorts of communities really thrive.

I think we're all at our best when there's a free exchange of ideas and sharing of cultures. And we're at our worst when we turn a blind eye towards cultures that oppress women, deny religious freedoms, persecute homosexuals, and stifle free speech.